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Old 05-06-2003, 07:11 AM   #41
KPaulCook
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Default Re: I like Mladin's attitude.

OK you make a good point. However, his whinning about rules putting 750 inline 4s at a disadvantage with 1000cc led to the rule change. He was right and had the courage to speak up. People like Dave Sadowski on Speed channel say Mladin gets a bad rap. Since I have been watching him I haven't heard of anything that would be called rude or arrogant.
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Old 05-06-2003, 07:19 AM   #42
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Default Re: Prediction

If the rule was 1000 cc period, with no funky weight limits etc., 4 cylinders would dominate. Suzuki has a 4, Ducati has a 4, Kawaski has a 4, and Yamaha has a 4. Get the point. Only Honda can afford this one off thing. But given a straight rule 4s dominate. As many of said in a 4 cycle world 4s, 8s, 16s, have the advantage.
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Old 05-06-2003, 08:08 AM   #43
webdev511
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Default Yes, it should be on the amount of air pumped

I just don't think AMA or WSB got the formula right.



Well WSB might have, but if Honda & Aprilla were putting the same amount of money into the RC-51 & Mille as Ducati put into the 999, you'd still have a mixed field at the front of the WSB races.



That said, the Twins can be lighter than the 1000cc 4's, but Honda can't seem to find anywhere to drop the weight this year.



EBoz is competitive with the Honda atm, the Suzukis are so much better given the current rules that they really have to mess up to lose.



End result? Lots of Squids will buy GSXR 1000's because they are cleaning up at the AMA races. Of course they neither know nor care about just what's going one behind the scenes.



Now a Mille Cube? I would buy one of those, even if it wasn't winning races.
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Old 05-06-2003, 09:37 AM   #44
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Default Re: Infineon Superbike Results

Here is the way I saw it Sunday.



Say what you will about Mladin, but he is a very talented rider.



Miguel - Never quits. Rides like Hell. What was he thinking going into the chicane just before he high-sided?



E-Boz - That guy leans that bike over way too far - either he has to, in order to maintain high corner speed, because it accelerates so slow out of corners or he needs to adjust his riding style. Someone give him a bike that's competitive - please!!



Brother Ben - He wasn't exactly cruising, but after WSBK is it hard to return to AMA???
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Old 05-06-2003, 09:53 AM   #45
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Default Re: Infineon Superbike Results

You Moron. They make a "limited" quanity of the bike not a mass produced cookie cutter like the GSXR's. Don't get me wrong the gixxerr is one fast cookie!
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Old 05-06-2003, 10:11 AM   #46
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Default Re: Infineon Superbike Results

nice contribution. everyone should start their replies with "you moron". it brings out the best in a debate.



I don't think honda is in the market of making motorcycles just to appeal to an elitist market. if you make a 'limited' number of bikes, they are priced higher due to the higher demand. last I checked, msrp on an rc-51 is still just 10,999.



just my .02
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Old 05-06-2003, 10:40 AM   #47
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Default Re: Prediction

"If the rule was 1000 cc period, with no funky weight limits etc., 4 cylinders would dominate. "



Wrong again. Weight limits are penalties for more, not less cylinders. I think you have it backwards.



"Suzuki has a 4, Ducati has a 4, Kawaski has a 4, and Yamaha has a 4. Get the point."



Yup, I got the point. Add all those mfgs. together and give me the total amount of GP wins. Now lets compare them to the Honda v5. Get the point now?



"But given a straight rule 4s dominate."



No they don't. As a straight rule more cylinders dominate. That's why Honda was running 6 cylinder 250's 25 years ago. Maybe your too young and too dumb to remember that.



"As many of said in a 4 cycle world 4s, 8s, 16s, have the advantage."



Yeah they sure do. That is why Honda is kicking everyone's ass with a v-5 and will continue to do it. Try taking off the "inline four" rose colored glasses for about five minutes and you will see they aren't that special.
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Old 05-06-2003, 12:37 PM   #48
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Default Re: OMLWDIB?

>>a 1000cc I-4 pumps a lot more air than a 1000cc V-Twin<<



Well,sort of. At the same rpm, both configurations will pump exactly the same volume of air (that is essentially the definition of displacement) but all things being equal, the 4 will be able to rev faster, and thus pump more air.



At current state of the art, maximum engine speed is limited largely by 1) maximum piston speed, and 2) the time it takes for the flame front to spread across the combustion chamber.



For a twin to maintain allowable piston speeds and match rpm with a 4, it would need a very short stroke, which means a larger bore, which runs afoul of limitation 2.



At the time the original 750 4s/ 1000 twins rule was put in effect, the formula was probably about right. However, Ducati, and then Aprilia and Honda, found ways to speed flame front propogation and thus were able to push the bore/stroke ratios much further than was practical earlier and thus were able to pull a lot higher rpm. Clearly, by the late '90s, the formula was out of date, and WSB (And AMA) probably waited too late to recognize that change.



Cheers

Bob





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Old 05-06-2003, 12:52 PM   #49
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Default Re: Yes, it should be on the amount of air pumped

Not sure about the part about "...twins can be lighter...." I am not sure if you are refering to engineering factors or rules. This year, all AMA superbikes must weigh at least 370 pounds, which is slightly less than the RC51s were running anyway, but both Eric Bostrom's Kawasaki and the Ducatis have to add ballast to meet these rules. Not sure where the big gixxers weigh in.



I am not convinced that a twin is inherently any lighter than a 4, and in fact I suspect the opposite is true. All things being equal, peak loads will be much higher on a 4 vs a twin, thus the peak loads on crank, bearings etc will be higher. Note that Ducati found that the "Twin Pulse" (which was essentially a "virtual" V-twin) configuration of their MotoGP V4 would not hold up. In addition, a twin requires more flywheel than does a 4.



If you compare weights for sportbikes, Ducatis, Aprilias etc are usually heavier than their 4 cylinder competition. It is not due to heavy frames, it is the motors that are heavy.



Having said all that, I have no intention of trading my Ducati for an inline 4



Cheers

Bob



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Old 05-06-2003, 12:54 PM   #50
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Default Re: Infineon Superbike Results

Dr Ting just operated on the collarbone, and there is a possibility he may try race at the next round.



If any doctor can do this, it is Dr Ting, and if any rider would attempt it, it is Mig.



Bob
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