Zero Motorcycles turns 10 years old in 2016, and anyone who has followed the company’s progress, even from the periphery, can’t deny the progress Zero has made in advancing electric motorcycles. Giving his take on the electric motorcycle movement, and the role Zero Motorcycles has played in it, is company CTO Abe Askenazi. In his statement below, Abe argues the benefits of electric propulsion (though range and charge times are curiously absent from his statment). Clearly he has a stake in the electric game, but for those unfamiliar with Askenazi you should know that he spent a significant portion of his career in a similar role working alongside Erik Buell at Buell Motorcycles. A company, if you’ll remember, whose name was built on building a sportbike out of the unmistakable, gasoline-burning Harley-Davidson V-Twin. -TS

Zero Motorcycles: 10 years of leadership

By Abe Askenazi, CTO, Product Manager and Director

Zero Motorcycles is celebrating its tenth anniversary this year. In many ways, we still have a lot to prove and achieve in leading the EV transformation of the motorcycle industry. We’re still a young company by the standards of our industry.  In the US, Harley-Davidson has been around since 1903 and Indian was originally formed in 1901. Elsewhere, Triumph, in its original form, started in 1902, BMW in the early 20’s, and many of the iconic brands of our industry (e.g., Honda, Ducati or KTM) in the decade following WWII. So we’re young, barely a teenager, but we don’t lack in confidence. If you find us brash, feel free to credit our attitude to youth and our roots in Santa Cruz, California.

We believe electric powertrains are vastly superior to internal combustion engines (ICE). They’re not only greener and significantly more energy efficient, they’re just plain better. Electric vehicles provide a better experience, and particularly so our motorcycles.  The always-available plentiful torque, the direct clutch-less and shift-less connection to the rear wheel, the absence of noise, vibration, heat and fumes all contribute to a superior riding experience. The exhilaration of telepathic and muscular propulsion without needless drama, what Zero riders call “the magic carpet ride”, is at the very core of why we all got to riding motorcycles in the first place.

For those of you who are technology historians, the late 19th century saw the emergence of both electric and ICE powertrains that offered credible paths forward for self-propelled vehicles. It could have gone either way, but the world went the ICE route, and ICE powertrains then benefited of 120+ years of refinement and optimization. Electric powertrains were relegated to industrial applications, forklifts and golf-carts. Electric powertrains have only caught up in earnest in the last decade. Today, a short ten years after we started, we challenge anybody to ride our motorcycles and compare the experience to that of traditional ICE motorcycles. You will be impressed. While electric powertrains will continue to benefit from much steeper technology dynamics than ICE powertrains in the foreseeable future, and will therefore keep increasing their relative advantage, the future is already here.  You can ride a Zero and experience the future today, and have more fun doing it than you should be allowed.

What we do is not easy. Motorcycles and powersports applications require unique EV technology, which Zero has mastered through sustained efforts and investment. Our battery packs are the most power-dense and most weatherproof in the EV industry, because, unlike cars, motorcycles do not have the luxury of extra real estate or watertight compartments. Our proprietary motor design optimizes torque and space. Our proprietary Battery Management System and Main Bike Board (what we call our Vehicle Control Unit) handle all the smarts needed for operating our motorcycles. Our sophisticated simplicity philosophy has guided all our technology developments and our powertrain and vehicle designs, which is why we have no clutch, no gears, and our powertrains are entirely passively air cooled. Anything else would be trying to emulate ICE for no reason other than a blind and short-sighted adherence to constraints that are not ours. We will continue to prevail because electric powertrains are superior, and we design them to optimize EV technology, not to pay a nostalgic tribute to ICE powertrains.

As I said, we’re young, and maybe we’re brash. But we’re also right. Come and experience why.

*    *    *

Zero Motorcycles announced today that Chief Technology Officer and Product Manager Abe Askenazi has been appointed to its Board of Directors, a reflection of his contributions and leadership. Since joining Zero, Askenazi has played a pivotal role in making the company the global leader of the electric motorcycle industry.

A passionate lifelong motorcyclist, Askenazi holds both a BS and an MS in Mechanical Engineering from UC Berkeley; his Master’s thesis was on “The Dynamics of Motorcycles.” Upon graduating, Askenazi joined Buell Motorcycle Company in Engineering, where he reported to Erik Buell and became a member of Harley-Davidson’s Senior Leadership Group. He joined Zero Motorcycles as VP of Engineering and quickly rose to the position of CTO and member of the Executive Committee.

Abe is the chief architect of Zero Motorcycles’ robust technology infrastructure and has directed the development of the company’s industry-leading intellectual property in battery systems, control architecture, motors and vehicle integration. He nurtured the company’s relentless focus on sophisticated simplicity, the guiding philosophy behind Zero’s powertrains and motorcycles.

  • Ian Parkes

    How long does it take to recharge? About 20 seconds.

    Ride it to work, then plug it in and walk away. At the end of the day ride it home, plug it in and open the beer. Save hours every year messing about with splashy liquid fuel in smelly petrol stations, handing over large dollops of cash for the privilege and compensating yourself with snacks you don’t need.

    • DickRuble

      The range is not the issue for consumers. The issue is that for $3K you can buy a very good used motorcycle to play around or to commute. You cannot find an electric bike equivalent for that kind of money. When that happens, you’ll see a significant number of electric bikes on the road.

      • gasdive

        Dickruble, If you’re happy with used then for 3k you can buy a used electric. It won’t have the range of a current model, but it will have the range to match an above average commute.

        Then instead of spending (conservatively) 500 a year on servicing and another 500 a year on fuel, you spend 20 dollars on fuel (or less in some states where EV charging at home is free). If you value your time at all, then you can work out what not spending 16 hours a year pumping petrol is worth. For me that’s worth about 500 dollars.

        I really don’t understand why people (and you’re not the only one) say that a new electric should cost less than a used petrol bike. They’re already cheaper to buy than the equivalent new petrol bike and much much cheaper to run. (as well as being lighter, smoother, and easier to ride) The base model is 7500 and that has enough range for more than 78% of commuters. It’s just over half the price of say an Africa Twin, but it’s also less than half the weight! The model one up from base covers more than 98% of commuters. If you average more than about 6 thousand miles a year and keep it for 5 years it’s cheaper to buy a new electric (even if you throw it away at that point) than a used petrol. How much cheaper do you need to have a better bike be before you’ll switch?

        • Ser Samsquamsh

          I like the product, really. It doesn’t need to be cheaper but Zero charges an insane premium for the battery. Zero is being too smart with price and projecting “potential fuel savings” onto the consumerism front. Sure over 200k miles I save some money I guess but at 50 miles per change that’s functionally going to take 30 years. I’m pretty sure if I run over a nail on an electric I’d still need a new tire and Gas is super cheap at the moment so price is a huge issue.

          Also people like noise. If the Zero sounded like a tie fighter I bet they would sell more. I would buy it just for that.

          • gasdive

            My 2010 Zero sounded almost *exactly* like a tie fighter. My 2014 Zero doesn’t but I don’t miss it that much. It sounds more like a tron bike than a tie fighter. (original Tron)

            I don’t think the battery is an ‘insane’ premium but value is pretty subjective. Assuming you actually ride the bike rather than just store it, break even is a lot sooner than 30 years particularly given that a Zero is *cheaper to buy* than an equivalent petrol bike. Which actually means that you’re ahead as you ride out of the showroom, well before the first service or first fillup.

            If you actually run the figures over 200 thousand miles (a friend has put 100 000 on his so that’s not impossible, but he does like riding). That’s about 4000 gallons of fuel. Say 6000 dollars?. 1500 trips to the petrol station, say 500 hours of your time, which for me equals about 20 000 dollars worth. (if you don’t have a good figure for this think of a toll road, how much time it saves to use it and how much it costs. If you have ever used that toll road you rate your time at a *higher* value than that. If you don’t like that way of working it out, imagine that there’s a help wanted sign at your petrol station, what dollar per hour figure would you accept to work nights and weekends to pump gas?). 50 services, so about another 10 000 dollars. You might do your own services so ‘it doesn’t cost me anything and I enjoy working on it’. So you value your time at zero? If your neighbour said, I’ll buy the oil and filters and I’ll let you service my bike, would you feel grateful or used?

            So a reasonable estimate of money saved over 200 000 miles is about 36 000 dollars. For me anyway.

          • Born to Ride

            Opportunity cost doesn’t work like that. Are all those hours you are pumping gas actually hours that you could be producing income? Most people I know pump gas on their way home from work, hence the hours you spend pumping gas are not subject to productivity loss unless you literally earn a wage at all hours of the day. Also, I know a lot of avid riders. Plenty of guys that ride their bikes over 100k miles from new. Clearly you are not one of them. Otherwise you would know that when you ride your bike a lot, you have to do more than engine related maintenance, headstock bearings fail on high mileage bikes, brakes, tires, fork seals, wheel bearings, and yes, valve adjustments and oil changes. If you are riding a bike that doesn’t require valve adjustments like a Harley or a Goldwing, then the only thing extra that you are buying is oil and filters every 5k miles or so. 20 oil changes does not cost 10,000$. You sir, are smoking the crack on your cost savings analysis. The 6000$ I spent on fuel I saved when I bought the ICE bike over the electric anyways.

          • Ser Samsquamsh

            That’s compelling argumentation, especially the TRON part:) however looking at the web site an options DSR out the door is 25000 CND. That’s three FZ-07s for example.

          • gasdive

            Really? wow. Ok, what’s a KTM 1190 Adventure worth in Canada?

          • Ser Samsquamsh

            The at moment around 19500 out the door for a KTM adventure.

            That’s why I was saying I don’t get the premium for the battery. I’d like a quiet bike that doesn’t stink up my house but that’s a lot of cash. Plus where I live its around 100 miles before you get to anything interesting to ride around on.

          • gasdive

            Yeah, if you’ve got a long transport section before your riding spot, then a Zero probably isn’t the best choice.

        • Born to Ride

          How the hell is a zero cheaper than an equivilent gas bike? The Zero SR gives motor performance similar to a KTM Duke 690 and comes similarly equipped in suspension, and has inferior brakes. The SR costs 16000$ and if you want that UP TO 98 mile range from the bigger battery you gotta pony up another 2700$. that is over 20 grand after tax. The KTM duke 690? Ten grand OTD all day long, and it has nearly double the range. You need to stop drinking so much of that cool aid and come back to reality.

          • gasdive

            Africa Twin has a version without a clutch. The KTM 690 doesn’t have a clutchless version. It’s also a twin so it has only huge vibration instead of being like hanging on to a nuclear powered vibrator. The closest competitor in terms of smoothness and lack of vibration is probably a BMW k1600 or a ‘wing. Both much more expensive than even the top of the range Zero.

            Yeah, the KTM is 10 grand out the door all day. Which is more than the bottom 6 versions of the Zero. I have a KTM and I’ve ridden the 690. The Zero is vastly better on the road. In terms of commuting, the Zero is streets ahead. No warmup, no clutch or gears and you don’t wake up the neighbours when you leave for work.

    • Born to Ride

      I like the smell of gasoline. And my diet would be horrendously unbalanced without my tabasco slim jims. Seriously though, all in good time, range is an issue on gas bikes too and will remain an issue. I don’t buy expensive vehicles for the singular purpose of riding around town and shortish commutes, and I know that is the sentiment of many with the EVs

      • gasdive

        ‘Shortish commutes’?
        The base model Zero covers more than 78% of US commutes. The one up from base covers over 98% of commutes.

        You can tour on them too if you want. I did 480 miles on mine in a day a couple of weeks ago. I’ve only once gone further in a day on a petrol bike in 35 years of riding.

        • Born to Ride

          How did you manage 480 miles in a day? Was the route just connecting the dots of fast charge stations? Zero *claims* that the SR with the “power tank” is good for 98 miles at 70 mph. I know that I don’t travel 70 mph on the highways because I like not having to use the slow lane, but lets say you do. Assuming you did primarily highway miles, that is at least 4 stops for juice. I don’t know what kind of realistic trip could be done with that constraint. However, I do know that it cannot ride 40 miles to Palomar, do a single run up and down the hill, and make it back on one charge. That, to ME, means that it has a range problem. However I will upgrade my previous statement to “moderate” commutes.

          • gasdive

            Ride to a caravan (RV) park, read a book, charge. Ride to a shopping centre, have lunch and charge. Ride to my Daughters, have dinner and a catchup while the bike charges. Ride back to the shopping centre, have a coffee, read a book and charge. Ride to the caravan park, charge (and read a book). Ride to McDonalds for a coffee and a charge (didn’t really need a charge, but I did need coffee), ride home. No fast charge places within a thousand miles of me. So 6 charges in all, but I’ve got a 2014, which has a battery about 2/3 the size of the 2016. I would have taken a break on the way down and the way back on the petrol bike. That’s what I *actually do* on the petrol bike. So the only extra time was the two stops at the caravan park. I sat and read a book, which is exactly what I would have done if I’d been home.

          • gasdive

            Oh, and I’m not sure where you live or quite where Palomar is. I put “Palomar” in and it spat back about 70 charge locations around the Mount Palomar Observatory. Surely you could use one of them.

            Don’t you see any contradiction in maintaining that an electric can only be useful if you don’t need to stop to fill on the road, it must be able to go where-ever you want, filling only at home. So you stay with petrol, which you can’t fill at home, only on the road? Think about that for a minute.

            Gracious of you to upgrade Zeros to ‘moderate’ commutes.

            If you don’t want one, that’s fine. There’s lots of bikes I don’t want. But if you have specific issues with them that aren’t actually real, then that’s something else. Everything I’ve replied to here has been some specific issue with the bike that isn’t real. Someone complained that they didn’t like the looks, and you’ll note that I certainly didn’t argue with that. It’s purely subjective. When you complained that they’re only able to do riding around town and shortish commutes, I objected to that because it’s a simple matter of fact that they’re fine for extremely long commutes and plenty of people, including me, tour on them. That’s just a fact. If you’d said “I would buy one if they came in white” I’d have also pointed out that they’re available in white, albeit a special order. You’d do that for anyone. Everything I’ve said here is like that. Someone says “I’d get one if it wasn’t XYZ” and I say “It’s not XYZ, its ABC”

    • Starmag

      “Not sure why people won’t take electric vehicles seriously until they have the same range as petrol engine vehicles.”

      Because most people can’t or refuse spend $15k for a vehicle solely to ride to work. That was easy.

      For the same $15k I’ll be riding my bike across the country this summer without a care about “range anxiety”. You’ll be staying in your hometown.

      When these start making any kind of sense, people won’t have to be “sold” on them. They won’t sell in big numbers until then.

      • gasdive

        Last week I rode mine 300 miles. Couple weeks before that 480 in a day. A friend is currently on his 3rd “4 corners” ride around the US.

    • Uncommon Sense

      Cost and image are the issues.

      The cost of electric motorcycles are prohibitive especially for people who can only have one bike. I can only have one bike, so if I am going to drop $15-$20k on a bike it pretty much has to tick all the boxes. Logically, a Zero would work for me given 90% of my riding is about 20 miles round trip to and from work. However, for the 10% of the time when I want to go on more extensive rides, the range limitations simply won’t work for me.

      Motorcyclist by in large are image conscious and luddites. People buy impractical bikes to fit into an image they want to portray whether it is a sport bike bro with his power ranger outfit or the wannabe tough guy dentist with his leather vest and chromed out Street Glide. If people bought bikes for function and practicality, more would be riding scooters.

      You can’t throw loud pipes on a zero so you rev “look at me on a fast bike” at a stop light.

      IMHO, I think the range is probably there but the aesthetics of the bike are not. The bikes look generic and cheap for the amount of money they cost. I’m sure they are fun to ride but they don’t have that something special where I want to just go admire it in my garage. I’d put more funds towards creating an eye popping design that gets people’s attention.

      • Born to Ride

        Empulse looks great. Still impractical as hell though. You are wrong about image though. I think “Eco-Friendly” image is a huge driving force in the economy these days. Why else would people spend 15 grand on a bike that performs as well as an SV650 and has the range of an MV Rivale?

    • Kevin Polito

      From the viewpoint of someone who has been a daily rider for over 40 years, using a motorcycle for daily commuting, all-day weekend riding, and cross-country touring, range is an important factor. An electric motorcycle would work for me only for commuting to work and back, and that is only scratching the surface of the kind of riding I do. I’ll be happy to buy an electric motorcycle when it has enough range to allow me to take my customary 200-mile pleasure rides.

      • gasdive

        I rode 480 miles in a day a few weeks ago. Time to switch is now. I don’t even have a current one. Mine’s a 2014. The 2016 can do 100 miles on a charge and charge from flat to full in an hour. (if you buy a 3rd party charger that’s a bit cheaper than an Akrapovic pipe). Ride 100 miles, stop for lunch. Ride 100 home. People do it every weekend.

        You have a bike that’s nearly half the weight, smoother and quieter than a BMW K1600GTL, for half the price.

        • Born to Ride

          Why would you even compare those two bikes? I K1600 also has far more power, comfort, features, and provides a completely different riding experience. That’s like saying you should buy a street triple instead of a Goldwing because it is half the price and less than half the weight.

          • gasdive

            Because if you value smoothness in a touring bike (and the fact that 6 cylinder ICE bikes exist strongly argues that many do) then the smoothest ICE bike available is the K1600. (or maybe the ‘wing). Many have paid a big premium in price and weight to get that smoothness. The cheapest Zero completely trounces the big K in terms of smoothness. It’s *NOT* like saying buy a street triple instead of a ‘wing. The ‘wing’s strong suits are linear power delivery, low maintenance and smoothness. There’s no point in saying ‘get a street triple’ because it’s not as good in those strong points. However if there was a bike that beat the ‘wing *on its strengths* that was cheaper and lighter, then yeah, you’d be better off with that other bike.

        • Kevin Polito

          I don’t ride in 100-mile circles around my house. I normally ride two to three hours (100 to 150 miles) over a scenic, twisty route and stop for lunch, then ride another two to three hours to get back home. None of the destination restaurants I’ve been riding to for the past few decades has a charging station. Oh, and I’m usually riding in a group of 4 to 8 people, and often multiple groups of 8 people, so the destination would have to provide charging for several dozen motorcycles at one time.

    • Kevin Polito

      I believe that at some point in the future, recharging stations will be more common than gas stations, that every parking space will be a recharging opportunity, and battery technology will have considerably expanded range to where range anxiety will be a memory. I look forward to that day (and hope that I’m still around to see it), but we’re not there yet.

  • JMDonald

    Electric powertrains are still on the left side on the bell curve of technology. If the steeper technology dynamics have a place to go (other than a dead end) eventually electric powertrains will be superior. I hope this is the case. When they get to the right side I’m all in. Hopefully it will be in my lifetime. Good luck Zero.

    • gasdive

      They’re already superior in most applications. Lighter, smoother, less maintenance, easier on tyres, cooler running, quieter, adjustable engine braking, easier to ride, less gyroscopic effect on handling (more flickable) which means the bikes can be made more stable while retaining easy change of direction or the same stability with easier change of direction (that means safer all round), no change with altitude and better throttle response.

      • JMDonald

        Good points. Unless they can reduce the price,weight,improve range and recharge time electric motorcycles are limited in scope. A heavy bike is not flickable. At present and as appealing as they are until they correct those basic shortcomings they at a disadvantage.

        • gasdive

          But they’re not heavy bikes. An FX is 112 kg/247 pounds. Compared to say the 690 KTM. 144 kg dry, 158kg ready to ride, yet advetised as “Not a single gram of fat”.

          They charge in a hour with an accessory charger.

          The FX is 75% of the purchase price of a 690 ktm.

          Range, as Ian said above, if it’s got enough range for what you need, then it doesn’t need any more than that.

          • JMDonald

            Zero like every other electric vehicle in the western universe carry a tax credit subsidy along with multiple government grants that reduce the resale price. The FX has an effective combined range of 24 miles. That spec highlights the weight range trade off. This data is available on the Zero website. There are some applications/requirements where an electric bike fits. I like the idea. The bottom line is at this time they are not superior to I.C.E. vehicles. I wish the reality was different. I would love to see an electric motorcycle that can compete with a like I.C.E. machine. Unfortunately at this time overall they cannot. Maybe some day they will. I wish them well. Ride Safe.

          • gasdive

            Subsidies are a completely different kettle of fish. Where I live (Australia) there are *no* subsidies for electric bikes. Prices are higher than the USA for all bikes. I wouldn’t get another petrol bike. For me it would be too much of a step down. Petrol bikes feel very crude in comparison. Have you ever ridden something like a CBR1000 or one of the late model BMW GS for a few weeks and then had a go on a Chinese pit bike or an old Enfield? That’s what riding a petrol bike feels like after you’ve been on electric for a while.

            If you mean ‘compete’ on price, then it’s pretty meaningless. There are petrol bikes that are far cheaper and petrol bikes that are far more expensive. Every Ducati is more expensive than every Kymco. Does that mean Ducati can’t compete with Kymco? “Maybe some day Ducatis will be able to compete with Kymco. Unfortunately at this time overall they cannot.” Does that statement make any sense?

            If you mean ‘compete’ as in race, then some forms of racing they *do* compete and win. The fastest sidecar in the world is electric. An electric has won outright at Pikes Peak. Does that mean electrics win all races. No. No more than twostrokes win all races.

            I’m *NOT* saying that they’re better than all petrol bikes in all measures in all circumstances, however I *am* saying that to say they have “shortcomings” in these areas is incorrect. They’re better on those measures than many petrol bikes.

            Yes the FX has a range of 24 miles. If that’s enough for what you do that’s enough for what you do. If you commute 20 miles to work or less as more than half the population does, then it can get you to work, where you can recharge it at any outlet before you go home. All the while enjoying having saved thousands of dollars on the purchase of a KTM 690, a weight saving equivalent to leaving a pillion at home and practically zero running costs. Lighter than a KTM 125 EXE that’s full of fuel, oil and coolant. No faster charge time nor range required. *IF* that’s all you need. Don’t think about this in terms of petrol bikes where a range of 24 miles means you have to detour to a fuel station on every trip. With an electric you start every trip with a full ‘tank’. If I’m not riding the bike, it’s plugged in and charging. If you need more you can get the 6.6 version. 50 miles to work and it can charge there while you work. Still cheaper and lighter than a KTM 690. While being smoother and nicer to ride than a K1600. If you need even more you can get the ZF9.8 but at that point, yeah, it’s heavier than a KTM 690 (though a much nicer ride). Still cheaper though.

          • JMDonald

            I can’t tell you how happy I am for you that you own and ride an electric bike. All the rationalization in the world cannot change reality. Ride Safe.

          • gasdive

            Yeah, rational arguments aren’t how we buy bikes. Or even talk about them. You *know* they’re heavier and no amount of pointing out spec sheets is going to change that. It’s ‘rationalisation’. You *know* they’re more expensive and no amount of quoting MSRPs is going to shift that either. You *know* the range isn’t enough, because you can just say ‘it’s not enough’, without ever specifying ‘enough for what’. It’s enough for more than 98% of USA commutes. It’s enough to ride 100 miles. 200 miles if you go slow. It’s enough to tour. But without ever agreeing to what ‘enough’ might be it can never reach that ‘enoughness’ level. You *know* they charge too slowly, but never say too slowly for what. They’re always fully charged the next time I want to use them, but that’s not the measure. They need to be faster than that. We never hear why they need to charge faster than that. I have dinner with my Daughter and when I get back to the bike it’s full again, but it needs to charge faster. Why? We never know. We just know that they need to correct these basic shortcomings. We never get to ask why.

          • JMDonald

            Your’re right gasdive. They are superior to anything else on the planet. Just like your thinking. If everyone was as smart as you everyone would have one. Thanks for hipping me to that dude. I now am free from the chains of reality. If it works for you good. I’m happy for you. Like I said. Ride Safe.

          • gasdive

            “They are superior to anything else on the planet.” which is the *exact* opposite of what I said. Well done!

          • JMDonald

            Thanks for clarifying. Your last bit of diatribe was so all over the map I wasn’t sure what you were trying to say. What was your point again? As long as you don’t care how long it takes to charge an electric motorcycle or how far or fast you can ride it it’s just like filling a gasoline fueled motorcycle’s tank in five minutes and being able to ride for 400 miles. Was that what you meant?

          • gasdive

            Close. As long as the time it takes to charge is less than the amount of time you’re not using it, then there’s no reason to care how long that is. What difference does it make if it charges in 5 hours or 5 seconds if you plug it in at work and you won’t be using the bike for 9 hours? None. There’s no difference. Do you care how long your mobile takes to charge? Do you even know how long it takes to charge? No. You plug it in at night and in the morning it’s ready for a day of intermittent use. Can you run a call centre on your mobile? No, you can’t, but not everyone runs a call centre.

            A mobile phone is *not* like a wired phone, you can’t talk for 8 hours straight. Does that make it a shortcoming? For people who need to talk for 8 hours straight, yes. For people who only talk for a couple of hours scattered through a day, then no, it doesn’t.

            An electric bike is *not* like a petrol bike, you can’t ride it for 8 hours straight. Does that make it a shortcoming? For people who need to ride for 8 hours straight, yes. For people who only ride for a couple of hours scattered through a day, then no, it doesn’t.

            Does that make a mobile phone “superior to anything else on the planet”? No, it makes it different to a wired phone. The wired phone is better at some things and not as good at other things. Would you be rude and dismissive to someone who uses a mobile phone instead of a wired phone? Would you just make up reasons why mobiles are bad that are clearly, obviously and verifiably false? Well, actually, you probably would, judging by how you’ve behaved here, but most people wouldn’t.

          • Born to Ride

            Someone failed logic class is college. Assuming he made it college…

          • JMDonald

            If it takes longer to charge an electric bike than it does to refuel a petrol bike and the distance and speed you can ride a petrol bike is longer and faster then they are not the same or equal. When truth is blurred by misinformation, perception becomes reality. What people perceive is usually what they believe, and this is based on what they hear, see and think.

            to ascribe (one’s acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious and often less creditable or agreeable causes.

            I wish you well.

          • gasdive

            What I’m saying isn’t “blurred by misinformation” (aka lying). I’ve referenced the spec sheets. Everything I’ve said other than my own experiences with the distance I’ve ridden is independently verifiable. There are people who’ve ridden twice as far as I have and they do have it independently verified. One of my friends got the ‘Iron Butt’ for 1000 miles in a day on a Zero. So claims of distance ridden in a day that’s twice what I’ve experienced is independently verifiable. Here:

            Your claim that I am claiming electrics recharge faster than petrol is a flat lie. Where have I said that?

            Your claim that I’m claiming electrics are faster over distance is a flat lie. Where have I said that?

            I’m arguing with facts rather than emotions. I *know* that doesn’t work for most people. However all I have is facts. As I’ve said elsewhere your arguments are based on emotion and rudeness. Sadly for most people that’s a compelling argument. I wish that it were not so. The world would be a better place if lies and personal attacks didn’t carry more weight than reason and facts. Brexit, Trump and Climate denial sadly demonstrate that people are not swayed by facts and reason. Multiple studies show that pointing out the facts is the *worst* way to change someone’s mind. Indeed pointing out the fact that are contrary to their position simply hardens their position. (as it appears to have done in this case).

            I wish I could stomach the effective ways, but I can’t.

          • JMDonald

            I find it interesting that your obsessive need to prove yourself right has manifested itself in referencing that Brexit,Trump and Climate Denial some how supports your delusional insistence you are arguing from a position of fact and reason.

            Your claim that I am claiming that you are claiming electrics recharge faster than petrol is a flat lie. Where have I said that? I never made that claim.

            Your claim that I am claiming that you are claiming electrics are faster over distance is a flat lie.
            Where have I said that? I never made that claim.

            What I did say was…………

            “If it takes longer to charge an electric bike than it does to refuel a petrol bike and the distance and speed you can ride a petrol bike is longer and faster then they are not the same or equal.”

            I have included a definition of Projection Theory for you so yo may better understand your behavior.

            Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually fallacious may constantly accuse other people of being fallacious. It incorporates blame shifting.

            I hope this helps.


  • Kevin Polito

    I’m all for electric vehicles. At present, an electric motorcycle doesn’t fit my needs. I live in a metro area, and I have to ride 40 miles just to get out of the city to the backroads where my enjoyable riding begins. A typical day ride for me is 150 to 200 miles round trip. When an electric motorcycle has a 200-mile range with windshield and saddlebags, I’ll be happy to buy one.

    • gasdive

      Buy a Diginow charger. City speeds don’t use much power. 40 miles will use about 20% of your charge. Then ride the bike out from the city. Plan to stop at a charge station anywhere within the next 80 miles (ie before the 120 mile point in your 150-200 mile round trip). Have lunch for an hour and then ride on. You’ll do it easily. The windshield seems to increase range slightly. Small saddlebags don’t make much difference.
      I’ve got a 2014 which has a battery 2/3 the size of the top of the range 2016 bike. I have 2 elcon chargers that have 1/2 the combined power of one Diginow charger (twice as long spent charging). I’ve done 480 miles in a day.

      If you’re prepared to ride slow (you might be surprised, unlike petrol bikes, electrics are *fun* no matter what speed) then over 200 miles on a single charge has been demonstrated by someone riding with a husky on the tank.

      • Kevin Polito

        You seem to be under the delusion that there are charging stations everywhere. There aren’t. Not yet. Riding slowly is not an option. On most roads, most drivers are traveling at the speed limit. The closer you are to the speed of surrounding vehicles, the safer you are.

        • gasdive

          Where do you ride and I’ll check and we’ll see how many chargers there are in your area. I’m in Australia and I’m under no delusions about the lack of chargers. I’m guessing you’re in the USA and if you are, then you’ve probably got something in the order of 100 times more chargers available to you than I do. You’ll probably find that you pass a dozen chargers on your 200 mile round trip. No need to ride slow.

  • Starmag

    Dear Gasdive, Abe is that you?

    • gasdive

      Nice complement but no.

  • John B.

    Does anyone see what’s going on here? This is sick!

  • ZeroLover

    Once you accept/realize that burning gasoline for transportation is environmentally irresponsible one would expect to be left with scant choices for a genuinely pleasurable transportation experience.

    Enter Zero, or rather “Exit Stage Left” on a Zero, grinning massively.

    I’m not the greenest in everything I do, I took the opportunity to switch to a Zero for a mix of selfish and altruistic reasons – my only regret is I should have switched sooner.

  • Starmag

    Electricity isn’t a source of energy, just a medium.

    About 67% of the electricity generated was from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum).

    Self righteousness isn’t a source of energy, just a PIA